The following is an independent review, by the Tiler Register, of the tiling course offered at Professional-ITT Tiling Courses.

You can view the whole review at the Tiler Register

We have quoted the review here at Tiling News but if you want to view the original source you can follow these links:

PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Day 1
PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Day 1
25/03/08 18:43
This review has been written for two main reasons, primarily to find out how good the course is and would I recommend people pay for the course and secondly as a CPD (Continued Professional Development) course for myself. *This is NOT a paid review*

Easter Monday morning and I’ve just travelled to P-ITT for their 5 day floor tiling course. I’ve managed to misjudge the traffic and the amount of time required to get from my home to P-ITT; I’m an hour early. Initially I was a little hesitant entering the premises at first with being so early, but those feelings were soon pushed to one side when Angela the site director welcomed me and showed me the signing in book and pointed me in the right direction for a coffee; vital fluids after a long journey.

We start the course and all the students are seated in the tiling workshop ready for the lessons to begin. The workshop has seven tiling bays, a store room with all the required tools and demonstration items, plus a central area at the front of the seats where the projector screen and main teaching area is. Each bay has plenty of space in which to work as a pair or singly, obstacles such as windows are built into the bay walls.

Jason the course instructor takes us through the health and safety aspects of the course, the fire escapes, meeting points and ensures that we read and understand the supplied health and safety notices included in the student packs.

Then it’s down to the meat and veg of being a tiler; adhesives and grouts. Jason clearly explains the different types of adhesives, their flexibility levels and where and when they should be used. Everything from pre-mixed tubs through 2 part flexible to 2 part rubber and latex are covered. Noise reducing adhesives and their application systems are covered and which brands are required to meet quality control guidelines. The instructor also details what part of the building regulations call for their requirement and in what scenarios you will most likely need to use these acoustic dampening systems.

Grouts are then covered in the same high level of detail as the adhesives, their physical makeup, flexibility levels, water resistance and again when and where you would use the appropriate grout. Epoxy grouts are also covered in their various viscosities and details on the benefits for choosing such a product are carefully discussed.

Great emphasis is placed on understanding and working in accordance with the relevant British Standards and their associated EN numbers. It has been apparent from the start of the course that ‘best practices’ are greatly encouraged. The class covers scenarios where overboarding with ply are required and at what thickness and at what centers the fixings must be placed and naturally what adhesive and grout you would use with which tiles.

It’s important to note that this element of the course has not been rushed, nor have we been made to feel that we’re on a timescale. Knowing and understanding what we are being taught seems to be the order of the day here.

Next we’re onto the basics of setting out a room. The importance of things being square and how to work out if the room is square. Admittedly the technique taught by P-ITT is very subtly different from the method I’ve always used, but I can honestly say their method is easier to grasp and as it transpires far more versatile. And before anyone asks neither P-ITT or myself do the ‘find the centre of the room’ method of laying out of a floor; I’ve proved that method doesn’t work at the best of times.

So as a class we are quite happily marking out our chalk lines and ensuring everything is square. Not only this, we know where our raking cuts and furthest points are, the size of our standard cuts and we’ve also determined which of our walls produces the best overall floor layout from it’s relationship to square. That’s not to say that we achieved those results first time around. Because the staff have thoughtfully made the some of the walls un-square and to different degrees in certain bays, hence why we are rotated through the bays a number of times to perfect the lessons. From my experience as a tiler, this was lesson very well taught and learnt.

During the final lesson we spent quite a deal of time staffing out to find out our cuts in both directions, to transfer points and to determine out setting out lines. This was done not only for standard square tiling but also for diamond and the necessary calculations used for determining the ideal cut sizes. Again the emphasis on this lesson, as it has been throughout the day was on understanding what we where doing, and knowing that Jason was on hand to explain further if needed.

So to conclude the review of the first day, I’d have to say excellent. I’m notoriously picky and opinionated on subjects I care about and tiling is one of them, not for a second did I have to question my reasons for being on the course. Even after day one, I’ve got to say it’s money very well spent; you can teach an old dog new tricks and I’m happy to learn them.

Seriously looking forward to day two; multiple room floor layouts!!

PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Day 2

PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Day 2
26/03/08 19:37
Day two of P-ITT’s floor tiling course and I must admit I had to think long and hard on the problems of fully disclosing the contents of today lessons; why? Well I know for a fact that todays multi-room and multi-corridor layout is not taught anywhere else and if it is, please let me know and to what degree. And I really didn’t want someone to come along and just copy P-ITT’s ideas.

But it wasn’t until I watched my fellow course students feverishly working away following Jason’s instructions and guidance and genuinely enjoying the tasks at hand, that I thought “It’s all in the teaching method”. You could have the best course content in the world but if you can’t convey the information in a way that everyone understands then what’s the point. Put it this way, I’ve spent years and years doing floors differently and within minutes they’d convinced my brain that there is an easier and more flexible way to work with floor tiling and I’m prepared to take those new lessons away with me and put them into practice.

During the course of today we have set out seven rooms and three corridors with tiles continuing from the corridor focal points through doorways (no door strips) into the rooms, around stairs and other floor obstacles.

Not only did this layout include a standard square layout, but also a diamond border design in the corridors. As a group we also had to determine the best layout that provide the least poorly sized cuts. Each pair had to accurately measure and report all their cuts sizes, the amount of rake cuts for square and brickbond layouts. And if you remember from the first post, not all the walls were square. So this process had to be done more than once and I’m glad the group had to go through the process more than once, because nothing in the real world is perfectly square, so you need to know what to do when things don’t work out quite right.

As you can imagine with this many layouts in so many rooms with different tile patterns this took quite a few hours, just enough time to let the knowledge seep in and settle.

After lunch we then went through a seated lesson on ceramic tile and natural stone make-up. Which materials fell into which category, how they are made, their strengths and weaknesses and what problems may occur when fixing. The group then had the chance to inspect many different tile materials such as porcelain, travertine, quartzite, basalt, terracotta, granite and marble plus many more.

Jason then took the class through detailed information on adhesive and grout requirements when working with natural stone materials plus how why and when they need sealing. There were also demonstrations on what happens to tiles which aren’t sealed correctly and the different types of sealer and their uses.

I have to say that day two for me was even better than day one, if for nothing else simply the multi-room layout. But saying that, the natural stone lesson was very informative and contained dare I say it ‘essential information’ for anyone working with stone. Again there were subtle differences with my current practices, but I’m truly glad because I’ve learnt new ways to make what for me is a really rewarding job, even easier and more versatile.

PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Day 3

PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Day 3
27/03/08 20:37
Day three of the P-ITT floor tiling course has commenced with the whole group starting work on the floor tiling, which will consist of tiling their individual bays into the corridors so that all the grout lines match.

Something that did surprise me was the use of real floor adhesive ‘BAL gold star’ and not the lime knock-up that I’ve been trained with before. The reason for this is to ensure authenticity when trowelling the adhesive out on the floor before fixing the tiles. You may argue that this is a small matter but there is definitely a difference, anyone who’s laid floor tiles before with any decent adhesive will be aware of its grab.

Again Jason has excelled at putting across the information and required techniques so the whole class understood. Not only has he demonstrated the use of power mixers, gauging the adhesive / water mix and the correct consistency, but also the correct technique for apply the adhesive to the substrate.

So the whole of today has been spent working hard fixing our tiles with plenty of large format tiles on hand and no limitations on the amount of cuts you’re allowed to make or rather mess-up. Again the P-ITT staff have found an excellent way to control the working area and ensure that the floor is laid squarely, I’m not going to divulge this technique, but I will say that it is a far more effective way than simply laying tiles against a line.

Workbenches with a variety of dry cutters are available to ensure the students get a feel of the mechanisms employed by different manufacturers. I must admit to having struggled a little with the dry cutters available as I tend to use ‘drag’ action cutters by Sigma or for floors a Tomecanic Supercoup which has a completely different feel from anything else. So I think it was a case of getting used to something different. Naturally there were a pair of quality Montolit wet saws available and all necessary safety equipment, all of which was fully explained and the use of enforced.

So all in all a day filled with hard work which when completed will have taught all of us far more than we previously knew.

PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Day 4

PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Day 4
29/03/08 07:10
Day four of the P-ITT floor tiling course has begun with the completion of our floor tiling, including cutting around a circular obstacle. The cutting and shape finding of this is to be done with the most basic of tools; just incase you’re in a situation where you don’t have all your fancy tools with you.

The large format tiles now stretch from our bays into the corridors and into the neighbouring bays and considering how inexperienced the course students, I have to admit to being very impressed with the results of first floor tiling work; well done guys!

Next Jason demonstrates the correct way to tile up steps / stairs; you wouldn’t believe how many of these I’ve seen done incorrectly. So it was nice to see them done correctly and again instructed in a clear and easily understandable way. Plenty of time was allowed for the students to get to grips with the measuring, cutting and fixing of the risers and treads of the steps; all grout lines had to follow the floor.

After another cracking lunch prepared by Norma, we settle down for what I consider one of the most important areas of a business; customer service. Without decent customer service and knowing how to accurately provide quotations, your tiling business will be short lived.

I was glad to see that Jason’s and P-ITT’s advice toward customer service, quotations and pricing was based on real life experience, realistic expectations and common courtesy; I see so many people giving advice and it’s always like one of the sketches where ‘I’m a little bit whoa, little bit waay!” type of spiel, glad this wasn’t the case here.

I had been giving a few pointers to my fellow course members over the days on what NOT to do, so I was pleased when the same things where mentioned in the customer service lesson.

So if everyone was to follow the advice given within that lesson, they could easily manage a successful business and continue to generate repeat business and referrals.

PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Day 5

PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Day 5
29/03/08 09:01 Filed in: Reviews
Day five of the P-ITT floor tiling course and it’s been busy with lots of information packed topics covered.

Grouting and cleaning off of our bays, corridors and steps is the first lesson. Jason starts by demonstrating the mixing of grout and an explanation for why manual mixing is best for grout strength and durability. The consistency of the grout is also discussed and what happens the grout is applied too wet.

Then it’s time for a demonstration of the correct way to apply grout to the floor with tips on how to make the task easier and what to look for to ensure the joints are filled. As the grout starts to stiffen up, Jason then demonstrates the ideal way to use a washboy and the need for a decent sponge and spongeboard; most of the students haven’t seen a washboy. Nick who I was working with was very impressed with the washboy and I think the whole exercise will help him greatly on future jobs. Again the technique P-ITT uses with the washboy is very slightly different to my own; but easier on the muscles than my way!

Once the clean has been completed and we’re all happy with the process and the need for cleaning up we are then onto a lengthy lesson on underfloor heating.

There’s a lot covered in the underfloor heating lesson; far more than I expected. We cover a variety of types including water based systems, electrical wire, mat and foil systems and the pro’s and con’s to each of them. We also cover the requirements for Part P electrical self-certification. Most of the students hadn’t heard of this, so Jason explained this area fully and detailed what can and can’t be done by a tiler without Part P accreditation.

I was very glad to know P-ITT share my thoughts on tiling straight over electrical wire matting and the problems that it causes not only with the increased risk of damaging cables but also the difficulty in complying with British Standards for complete coverage of adhesive.

Fixing methods for underfloor heating elements were fully covered along with instructions for screeding and leveling compounds, including a slide show presentation of works in progress where heating elements where being used. I think this helped to embed the knowledge for those who’d never seen such a task being done.

Removing tiles and how to repair damaged caused when removing the said tiles was a short but informative lesson, which covered what is a regular little job.

Screeds, substrate identification and movement joints was another in-depth lesson which covered an awful lot of ground. The lesson included what can be tiled to and what to use and of course substrates that are not suitable for tiling. How to identify the substrates was an important element as many had never heard of a greater majority of the terms used; but all was explained.

The need for movement joints and their British Standard requirements was covered fully for both walls and floors. A slideshow presentation further explained the use and types of movement joints available and also the different manufacturers of such joints.

Wet rooms, this for me was a very good lesson and indeed a little bit of a revelation as I’d been doing these in a much more difficult way. During the course of the lesson Jason explained how to construct a basic wet room and form the required slopes, how and where to apply the tanking and what the required adhesive and grouts are.

All in all an excellent day with a lot of content covered, but covered at a pace that I think all could cope with.

To complete the course there was a question and answer session after which where Paul explained about the technical support line that is available to all P-ITT students 91 hours per week. This feature in itself is worth a fortune, to know you can call someone for help when your in the mire or just plain lost on what to do. Paul also asked the class if they were happy with the course and if there was anything they weren’t clear on. The answer was a resounding yes to being happy with applause!

The course was completed with a nicely designed and presented certificate and a record of achievement.

PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Conclusion

PITT Floor Tiling Course Review - Conclusion
29/03/08 10:09
Here my final thoughts and overall conclusion of the P-ITT floor tiling course that I’ve attended for the past week.

Firstly I’d like to wish all my fellow students all the best on their new careers and truly hope they succeed and prove to be great professional tilers.

There’s a number of things to commend P-ITT on, so here’s a quick run down. (note P-ITT were refitting the entrance area at the time, which caused no disruption to the course)

The staff and instructors were all very friendly, supportive, polite and above all professional. The premises were not only kept very clean but also featured an nice dining area with a travertine floor and coffee and buffet area with a slate floor and very clean toilets.

The buffet lunches that were included in the cost of the course were excellent to say the least with most of the course getting 3rd’s or 4th’s most days. Many thanks to Norma for keeping us all so well fed! Naturally there was unlimited tea & coffee throughout the course and a daily selection of papers and trade magazines.

And even though Trades-Direct is located within the same premises as the training course, there was never a case of ‘only buy from us’ or ‘buy this, buy that’. Of course there are tool packages available but that is left entirely to you to decide to purchase with no pressure.

I’d also like to mention that for a company director Paul Riley is very hands on and always approachable and I think this was of definite benefit to the course members to have such an experienced tiler available to give advice and ideas. It’s very apparent from day one that he’s very passionate about his courses and from all accounts he’s always looking for ways to improve yet further. I have no doubt that if I did find fault with anything the team would listen and improve where necessary.

So I’m sure you can tell from the last few days that I’m happy with the course, its contents and the instructors and their teaching methods and the overall emphasis on British Standards and ‘best practices’. As a result I’ve already booked and paid for P-ITT’s plumbing course and as soon as I have a free week I’ll be paying for their wall tiling course. I’m also looking to get most of my work colleagues on the courses as I’m sure they would learn buckets just as I did.

From someone who can tile and very well if I’d like to boast, I’ll definitely recommend P-ITT’s floor tiling course to anyone who’s either looking to get into tiling or is already a tiler; remember yearly courses are tax deductible!!

More news by category Topic -: Buy phentermine saturday delivery ohio Tramadol hydrochloride tablets Picture of xanax pills Free shipping cheap phentermine Buying phentermine without prescription Safety of phentermine Pyridium Generic viagra cialis Cialis generic india Pink oval pill 17 xanax identification Buy free phentermine shipping Best price for generic viagra Information about street drugs or xanax bars Ordering viagra Snorting phentermine Hydrocodone overdose Lithium Amiodarone Get online viagra Order viagra prescription Order xanax paying cod Cheap phentermine free shipping Imiquimod Tramadol next day Linkdomain buy online viagra info domain buy onlin Pfizer viagra sperm Vidarabine Cheapest viagra price Prevacid Viagra cialis levitra comparison Dutasteride Lisinopril Thiotepa Female spray viagra Black market phentermine Betamethasone Cialis forums What does xanax look like Loss phentermine story success weight Order xanax overnight Viagra alternative uk Diet online phentermine pill Order xanax cod Mecamylamine Eulexin Cheap hydrocodone Buy cheapest viagra Viagra xenical Phentermine with no prior prescription Xanax in urine Macrodantin Cheap phentermine with online consultation Epivir Buy phentermine epharmacist Ditropan Woman use viagra Cialis erectile dysfunction Xanax withdrawl message boards Viagra online store Atorvastatin Generic ambien Is phentermine addictive Next day delivery on phentermine Buy online viagra Ethanol Natural phentermine Avandamet Xanax long term use Diet page phentermine pill yellow 5 cheap Cheapest secure delivery cialis uk Information medical phentermine Cialis experience Phentermine no perscription Compare ionamin phentermine Viagra cialis levivia dose comparison Noroxin Effects of viagra on women Buy cheap cialis Viagra shelf life Hydroxyurea Phentermine discount no prescription Buy cheap online viagra Dog xanax Online cialis Viagra class action Viagra price Phentermine without prescription and energy pill Hydrocodone cod only Nicoumalone Cheapest viagra Cheap ambien Vicodin without prescription Phentermine prescription online Phentermine snorting Mirtazapine Quazepam Isradipine Buy generic viagra online Xanax look alike Moxifloxacin Viagra experiences Piroxicam Nicorette Free try viagra Sotalol Cash on delivery shipping of phentermine How do i stop taking phentermine Xanax prescriptions Cheapest phentermine 90 day order Niacinamide Phentermine weight loss Phentermine

Since establishing the world famous TileForums.com we thought it would be a great idea to setup a new for Home Interiors. We’ve got just about every subject on there so there’s something for everybody, from interior design through to tiles through to lighting.
Join our forum today, it’s free. Click -> Home Interiors Forums

Have a look around, and even ask a question if you feel like it. Get involved and get useful advice from other DIY’ers and Tradesmen.

Tiling is a growing industry and with this has grown the number of tiling training schools offering courses.
so

How do you choose a course?

Courses are like everything, there are good and not good. Up till now there has been no way to tell whether a course will be worth it and worthy of your money. There is currently no governmental regulation for quality control for training centres, so practically anyone can setup a training school. This can make CHOOSING A GOOD TILING COURSE very difficult and if you opt for one that is not up to scratch it is unlikely you will get your money back.

Have no fear, though. Recent movements by The Tiling Association - TTA - (a government approved body) have gone a long way to recognising quality tiling training.

There is NOW A WAY TO FIND A GOOD TILING COURSE

The TTA recently visited many training centres in order to recognise those of sufficent quality to teach tiling to a level they deemed necessary.

The training centres that matched their training criteria are fully recognised and can now carry the TTA Logo :

So don’t Gamble with your training .. choose recognised quality.

The one that we know of is Professional-ITT and as well as being fully recognised and carrying the TTA logo they are also long established and well known for top-notch training.

Click Tiling Courses to go directly to their website.

 With an almost unlimited choice of patterns, textures and colours to please even the most fastidious tastes, bathroom tiles are the obvious choice for lining your bathroom or shower area. Although some people consider leaving it to the professionals, most bathrooms can be tiled in a weekend, even if you have had no previous tiling experience.

Before you begin, here are the essential tools you’ll need for the job:-

Preparation

Before you begin, it is imperative that the walls are clean, sound and dry. The surface should be as flat as possible and therefore you will need to remove any wallpapering and coat any flaking paint with a stabilizing primer. Now would be a good time to make your very own gauge stick, which will help you plot the position of the tiles on the wall. Find a piece of softwood and lay several tiles next to it (adding spacers if the tiles are square edged or butting together those with lugs) and mark off the position of each tile along the stick.

Setting Out The Tiles

The size and shape of your bathroom ultimately decides on how you set out the walls. Mark the bottom of the lowest row of tiles and temporarily nail a thin guide batten to the wall, aligned with the mark. Use the spirit level to ensure that this is perfectly horizontal. Marking the centre of the wall, use the gauge stick to set out the rows of tiles on each side of it. If the border tiles measure less than half the width of a tile, reposition the rows sideways by half a tile. Use the spirit level to place a guide batten against the last vertical line and nail it to the wall. If you have to tile around an object such as a window, use that as your starting point so that the surrounding tiles are of equal size. Cut tiles should be placed at the back of the window reveal. Again, use a temporary guide batten above the window to position the row of tiles above it.

Applying The Adhesive

It’s important to always use a waterproof tile adhesive for areas that will come into contact with water. Most tile adhesives are sold ready-mixed, although some will require you to add water yourself. Apply the adhesive to the wall so that it covers about 1 metre square.

Cutting The Border Tiles

Once you have completed the main area, the border tiles will need to be cut to fit the gap between the adjacent walls. Placing the border tile face down and with one edge next to the wall, mark where it is to be cut taking into consideration normal spacing between the tiles. Use a felt tip pen to transfer the mark to the face of the tile. Take the tile cutter and holding it against a straightedge, score across the face in one firm stroke. Stretching a length of thin wire across a panel of chipboard, place the scored line over the wire and press down on both sides to snap the tile. Alternatively, you can use a purpose-made tile-cutting jig. Using a tile sander, smooth over the cut edges of the tile.

Fitting Around Appliances

When fitting tiles around a pipe, it’s best to try and set them out so that you can cut a semi circle from the edges of two adjacent tiles. If this is not possible, mark the centre of the pipe on the top and side edges of the tile and draw lines across from these points. Using a coin, or something slightly larger than the diameter of the pipe, draw around where the two lines cross. Make a cut straight through the centre of the circle and then use a tile saw to cut out the remaining circle. To fit a tile against a curved shape, it’s best to use a piece of thin card and draw a template of the exact size of the tile. Cut small, evenly spaced slits along one edge of the tile and press them against a curve replicate the shape. Transfer the gradient of the curve on to the face of the tile and then cut using a tile saw.

Grouting And Sealing

It is essential to use waterproof grout for any bath or shower surrounds. Grout comes in a pre-mixed paste grey, white or brown paste, although it is also possible these days to source coloured grouts that will blend in with your choice of tiles. Allow the tile adhesive to harden for 24 hours before applying the grout using a rubber-bladed spreader, ensuring that are the joints are filled. Using a sponge, wipe the grout from the surface of the tiles before it sets and smooth the joints with a blunt-ended stick. When it has dried, use a dry cloth to polish the face of the tiles and leave for about a week before using.

Sealing Bathroom Fittings

You should not use grout to seal the gap between the shower tray or bathtub and the wall, since it can crack and lose its waterproof seal. It’s best to use a silicon sealant compound, which you can buy in cartridges. The sealants are again available in a choice of colours to match your choice of tile. Trim the end off the nozzle and press the tip into the joint at an angle of 45 degrees. When applying the sealant to bathtubs, it’s best to stand in the bath* since the join will accommodate your body weight. When you have finished, smooth over any ripples with a wetted teaspoon handle.

* I have received the following useful observation from a visitor:-

May I make a suggestion to the item on tiling .Sub heading Sealing I go along with everything until it comes to the part about standing in the bath. when one gets out of the bath however the bath tub will rise slightly due to the weight being taken of the floor, then the silicone is squeezed out of the joints. What I do is fill the bath full of water. then silicone the joint, leave for 24 hours then let the water go, when the bath rises this time it compresses the dried silicone, whereas the other way every time the bath is filled the dried silicone is stretched leaving a damaged seal . I have done this for over 15 years and believe me it works the best of all.

Contributed by Alan Farrell

---

 

Consult a contractor when making home repairs and building a new home.

 

tile forums

Hello all,

As most of you should be aware there was a meeting organised on the 3rd of March to discuss a future for ourselves (Tile Fixers) As with all things great interest to start with everyone going, yes we need it, yes we will support it blah blah blah. I must admit I could not attend the meeting myself but a few hardy Tile Fixers made the journey and a few things were discussed. I say well done to these guys and girls? for getting the ball rolling.

Now I am not PITT trained but I am a member of the TTA which I pay my dues but I have not seen Tile Fixers representing Tile Fixers there seems to be lots of suits but maybe that is not the fault of the TTA maybe it is the fault of ourselves the Tile Fixers not asking what is going on and who is making the decisions that is changing our industry. So you maybe asking where am I going with this????

Well as I said I am not PITT trained and I would be interested to find out what the actual figures for this forum are ie Percentage PITT trained against non PITT trained. Jase/Paul could you provide??

When any Assocciation is formed you need:

A: Interest
B: What people want from the Association
C: Some brave souls that will act as a Steering group
D: The start of a constitution
E: A meeting to agree constitution
F: Elect a committee

Now I was not at the original meeting but I have made some suggestions and a couple of people have suggested I make them public

We know there is interest for an association and I know that there were a lot that could not make the meeting but I am willing to make a 1100 mile round trip for the next meeting. However to get this of the ground would you as TILE FIXERS get involved. We need to get the planned association know to the outside world rather than just the forum.

I suggest if agreed that a Draft Letter is released and that everyone in the forum prints of 10 copies and then sends it out to tilers in your area. It is not as if a few stamps are going to break the bank.

If we get 50 more tilers interested it is 50 more than today.

Please let me know your thoughts and lets get some feedback suggestions.

Or being Devils advocat do we approach the TTA and get some answers? Maybe it has been tried already?

These are my thoughts and not the thoughts of the guys that turned up at the meeting. Who I take my hat of to getting the ball rolling.

All the best,

Gary

Highlander
———————————————————————————